I have never joined a parenting community to mock or to vilify another mother or group of parents.
I have never directly quoted another mother in a negative way to prove my point or to bully.
I have never intended to hurt other mothers no matter their view on parenting or childbirth.
I usually allude to but don’t link to websites or forums I feel are bullying or trolling.
Until now.
This blog post was written with no other intentions other then to flame, bully and troll. It has taken posts completely out of context simply to mock and humiliate.
And the writer is a doula! How unprofessional!
Why am I writing this? Why am I getting so upset about it? Because it is yet another example of someone demanding respect for their opinions and choices without returning the favour.
You want respect? Then give it. I wouldn’t have cared if it had of been a post about how some women chose cesareans and how it is still a birth and should be recognized as such. My son was born via the ‘sunroof’ as some like to call it. It was still a birth, he was born, he didn’t just appear. Now it wasn’t a natural birth by any stretch of the imagination but he was born, we certainly won’t be celebrating his surgery day or Caesar day, it’s his birthday.
But why get personal? Why bully?
And why join a website just to troll or for the lulz as this doula has said.
I personally wouldn’t want to be hiring a doula who trolled homebirth forums for the lulz.
If you don’t like a community don’t join. If you don’t want to actively contribute to a healthy discussion about birth, don’t sign up.
And if you think you’re being clever accusing loving and supportive women of being cruel and nasty, well you’re not.
Flame me all you want, I know what sort of a person I am. I give friends planning births all the facts at my disposal but at the end of the day the choices are theirs not mine and if they chose a Caesar then I will be cheering them on all the way and hoping they have a wonderful experience.
I don’t love surgical births, but I believe all women should be entitled to birth how they want to, not how someone tells them to. Not me, not websites, not doulas, not midwives, not OBs. The decisions should rest with the mother and she should be informed and supported in her choices.
Comments on: "Fed up with cyber bullying" (21)
and with Birth Without Fear on your blogroll this post doesn’t surprise me. put on your big girl panties, seriously.
And what is that suppose to mean? Mrs BWF was another woman who was incredibly supportive of my sons surgical birth. Say what you mean without resorting to childish insults.
Oh yeah, BWF, where Liz P was referred to as a “sad little bitch who lost her puppy” in reference to her daughter being stillborn. But that’s not cyber-bullying.
I’m not going to endorse what was and wasn’t said, it’s an 18 month old thread and I haven’t been a member for that long. I actually joined JB in December while planning my csection and have found the women there to be nothing but helpful.
Also I can’t speak for BWF, I like what she blogs and she posts informative and interesting links on her page. There seems to be an assumption that all natural birth advocates and attachment parents are part of this ‘newtwork’ and all know everything about what everyone else is doing. There is no such secret society.
The problem I have is that someone in JB is reposting screen caps (against the Rules of JB) with no intent other then to vilify and mock. Now I don’t always agree with everything written but when I don’t I either polite (in the thread or in private message) discuss it with the poster or if it really upsets me I ignore it and move onto something that does resonate with me.
JB was a safe space with likeminded parents and a place where I could share my beliefs regarding parenting and birth. And now that trust has been violated because what else is being reposted? From the birth section? The breastfeeding section? What else is being mocked?
The safety I felt to be able to ask my questions and share my parenting journey has been violated. I know the Internet isn’t private but I never thought people would join a community and repost information elsewhere just for a laugh at another’s expense.
What you are missing is that most of the time when you tried to express an opinion that differ even slightly from a group,or FB page, it doesnt matter if you agree with them on everything else, you get deleted. It does get old!
The post you linked is made of screen caps, those ladies really said those things! it wasnt made up! I can understand they get mad, if I were to say something this hurtful and someone would call me out on it…I would be pretty embarassed.
Also BWf is famous for deleting about everybody who doesnt fully worship her.
The point is the blogger joined the community with the sole intention of collecting posts to mock and vilify for her own gain. What part or that is okay?
And sometimes a friend having a Caesar can bring up feelings about our own births both good and bad, these quotes were taken completely out of context.
And yes I enjoy and appreciate birth without fear, I feel she provides an informative view on birth and parenting.
Seriously? Please, do explain how those posts were taken out of context. A woman posts that her friend is having what sounds like a medically necessary c/s, and spends the whole post whining about how grief-stricken she is that the baby is going to be “ripped” from her friend’s body, and how she wants to HIT HER and tell her it’s all her fault for not eating the way she thinks she should have. Here’s a newsflash sweetheart, other women’s births aren’t an opportunity for your to air your dirty laundry over your own births. The woman is a shitty friend who should have kept her mouth shut and just told her friend “congratulations.” The internet is not private, and you’re an ignorant fool if you think otherwise.
I love the follow-up from Janet “Birthrape is worse than dead babies” Fraser reminding women that c/s babies are never safely born, they merely “survive” are irreparably damaged.
Great post and I agree entirely!
Thank you Sharon
I’m very confused. Who’s supposed to be bullying whom here? So someone who had a caesarian has apparently joined forums just to screencap people who bully people having caesarians, but I think you’re saying that the forum-joiner is the bully? How exactly??
The original posts that were screencapped were taken out of context, the OP was expressing her feelings over a friends birth. The blogger joined said community (which is unashamedly a homebirth and natural birth community) for the ‘lulz’ screencapped and reposted (a breech of the terms and conditions of the community she joined) which then led to a round of I agrees and even further people mocking and being down right nasty about a poster who had been screen capped makind wild accusations and saying hurtful and untrue things.
The blogger should have either not joined the community if she didn’t agree or kept the discussion tactful and to the point without result to name calling and insults.
You’re saying that people have no right to tell their true feelings? This woman was saying horrid things about her friend and we can’t call her out on that? You get to have your say. Man-up lady. Freedom of speech dose not have to be polite. In fact it is there for that very reason–that no one is going to like everything someone has to say.
Mama Tao has an answer for this I think: http://www.themamatao.com/?p=155
I am in shock a bit over the screen capped comments. Firstly with the content of which these woman have spoken about their ‘friend’ and secondly because the blogger in question thought it nesesarry to screen cap and share them. I am very PRO natural birth, all for promoting vbacs and think most c/s could be prevented. I understand alot of women feel grief and mourn the loss of a natural birth and the thought that some woman have elective c/s could hurt them, however I also know of people who have had c/s or even multiple c/s and don’t feel like they have lost out or need to grieve anything and get insulted when someone says ‘Ohhh maybe next time you’ll experience a real birth’ or something along those lines. I know someone who has had 3 c/s (first could have been prevented had she of known better she says) yet she feels indifferent about the whole natural vs c/s debate. She feels this way not because she is uneducated or hasn’t researched or tapped into her inner ‘birthing goddess’ but ‘just because’….she has told me, it just doesn’t matter to her. It doesn’t plague her thoughts and it sure as hell doesn’t make her feel less than or like she missed out. Whereas on the other token you have women who feel very saddened about missing the opportunity to birth naturally, so much so they might start a website or blog about it in the hopes that they can educate those who may need answers or even just to work through some inner issues by voicing their opinions etc.
Like anything in life, some people feel more passionate towards certain subjects and others feel compelled towards something entirely different. Some woman would give their all to have everyone know and educate themselves about birthing naturally and other women I know would put all their time and energy into World Vision for example. I have read alot and researched alot during my current pregnancy and have found alot of wonderful blogs, websites and FB pages that advocate natural parenting, natural birth and so forth yet this is the first time I have ever seen or read comments come from a concerned ‘friend’ regarding her friends decision to c/s. Despite me being pro-natural birth I would never want to ‘slap my friend across the head’ for her decision to do otherwise. I’m honestly shocked to have read such a comment.
I do completely agree with the idea the blogger is a troll and should not join a community only to be…well, a shit stirrer. I would not want someone who thinks along those lines as my doula! Sharing those comments were out of line, especially if she breached forum guidelines. But you can’t argue when it is said these comments are on the internet and no longer considered ‘private’. I do feel that she is entitled to her opinion, so are you, so is Mrs BWF, all the folk over at JB and so everybody else.
I don’t know what my point is! Her blog is her right in terms of free speech, however the context and undertone added with the screen capped comments come across as a hateful, undermining article that had no point but to mock and laugh at those who think differently to her.
Hopefully you aren’t getting too many negative comments, I comepletly see where you are coming from and I would imagine many others do too
KD – thanks for your comment, you’ve made some very valid points and given me some food thought. I suppose I was naive thinking the forum was a community only of like minded individuals and that no one was on the forum just to make fun of other members. That’s the part that annoys and worries me, because if they’re mocking this what else are they mocking? My birth trauma thread? My BLW thread? My questions about breastfeeding?
Luckily there haven’t been that many negative comments on my blog, just what’s here, I’ve approved all of them good and bad.
Bit of pot calling the kettle black? JB do enough bullying of their own. What business is it of that member to write about someone else any way? Wasn’t there a thread on jb where someone posted a picture of a little girls bedroom from a real estate website to mock. Honestly if you think jb don’t bully women as much as those evil ob’s then you must have rocks in your head. Like you said if your going to give it – Expect it back.
And if someone doesnt like JB then they’re more then welcome not to join.
Haha, right. So in other words, it’s okay for YOU to repost private stuff and mock other people, but no one else can! Try taking your own advice- if you don’t like 10cm, don’t fucking read it, lady.
What have I reposted that was private?
It’s not about liking it or not it’s about you having a rant that your private place has been violated. What about those who jb violate and talk about. Is that why you guys don’t want anyone sharing what is posted on there so you can shame and mock people behind their backs. At least this doula didn’t do it under the cloak of anonymity on a “private” forum.
Glad to see that logic is ruling the day. If someone posts a picture on facebook, and some random trolls it, well, then they should suck it up, right? Cause that’s what people here are saying about someone who posted on a public forum yeah? Good, we have that cleared up.
If people are allowed to write about their true feelings, then the poster talking about being distressed about her friend’s surgery is all A-okay, right? Cause thats what people here are saying about their right to call people they’ve never met “assholes”. Awesome. Also cleared up.
Clearly, no-one commenting here has EVER said “I’d like to smack that person in the back of the head”. Because, that would be like, wanting to HIT someone!!
And clearly, no-one here has EVER talked about their own birth when someone else’s was brough up. That would be airing their dirty birth laundry. And no-one has EVER had something come up that reminded them of something that distressed them.
As for the anonymity or not of the blogger, she’s been clear that SHE didn’t go to the forum and take the screen shots. Instead, she used screen shots taken by someone else, a member of the forum, who has so far not had the guts to go public. There is no hypocrisy there, right?
I’d like to see where JB has been bullying people. I’d like to see where they shame members who have had c-sections. I’d like to see where JB members have been violating the forum rules (that are in place to stop EXACTLY this kind of thing happening on the forum) – including the member who has been passing on screenshots as recently as yesterday, LONG after the forum became member-only veiwing. I’d happily pass this info on to the Admin people to take care of, because believe it or not, bullying is not condoned on JB. Violating the rules is not condoned. Trolling other forums/websites/blogs in order to cause harm to other people is NOT condoned by JB, or it’s members.
And I’d REALLY like to see the people here who are so convinced that they know what happens on JB to go over and join. See for yourself, not through someone who relies on information supplied by a person who doesn’t even have the guts to be open about what they have done.
Great Post!!! Thankyou.
One bullying, vicious and demaning comment does not mean that a whole group of people would have said the same thing, and certiainly does not make it ok to contin ue the behaviour towards others.
“Big girl panites”????? pulease